The Pharaonic bronze and the Indian bronze.

Among those cats classified as bronze pattern we find shoes ranging from a wonderful golden bronze through to read. More striking coats are those which have the highest colouration contrasted against the darkest black marks. Those cats that don't have such a strong colour are called cold bronze.

The original cats, there would have been known to the Pharaoh (hence the term Pharaonic) are gold in colour and can still be seen today on the streets in Cairo.

Red coloured cats come from the New Delhi zoo brought over by Jane Mills in order to create the Bengal cat. The first generations of offspring were mated with Mau's and so were registered as Mau's (by the CFA) and Bengals at the same time.

Although these cats were originally recognised by the CFA it later changed its mind and the resulting cats are known as Mau's even now

This means that we now have the Pharaonic bronze Mau and the Indian bronze Mau. Genetically these two are quite similar differing only in the polygens rufus -- the amount of polygens controls intensity of the red colour in the coat.

Obviously, each one can make their own choice. My preference is for the Pharaonic Bronze as is more true to the original Mau and also of the Mau that I brought back from Egypt. We are an international association and are subject to the book of origins, even if we prefer one to the other
-- the Indian bronze is also have their place among us.

The association also belongs to the "club of races of the LOOF" as such we uphold the standards of the LOOF (giving us the right to recognise the Black Mau) as well as making sure that these standards are respected in the LOOF exhibitions.

This is why we are defending the Pharaonic Mau in the LOOF.

The Indian Mau does not conform to thes standards and therefore has no place in the LOOF exhibitions. In addition the Pharaonic Mau has no place in the CFA exhibitions.

With the TICA, things are not as clear-cut as Mau's that seems similar to the Bengal (particularly with the glitter) are refused. But it should be noted that the judges from the TICA are also CFA judges and maybe more aware of the Indian Mau so it's understandable why the Indian Mau is more likely to be recognised by them.

What is certain, is that to obtain some beautiful and well-defined bronze colours will have to cross breed cats for a few generations -- this would be the same recipe for both the Pharaonic and the Indian bronze cats. By careful selection we can obtain bronzes that are either more gold or more red as we wish


One thing to remember, is that thanks to the Americans the Indian bronzes have been refined for a good number of years. We could therefore question if it's possible to work from this base to get more contrast in our traditional lines on condition that we will be able to breed out the red effect afterwards.

The bronze color is the most genuine color : this is the one you find on old papyrus. in Egypt, this cat, a warm brown one with black spots, is called pharaonic cat. CFA breeders prefer a more reddish color. We call this modern bronze indian bronze.

In France, Loof standard accepts only pharaonic bronze. So, Pharaonic cat is the only one AIME breeders accept in France.

But AIME is not only French. AIME is international. So, outside of France, AIME breeders prefer indian bronze whereever this color is the standard.

We all share the same love for our cats and, although we can have different taste, we all try to breed the bets egyptian maus.

I beleive that, in 10 or 20 years, there will be a place for both indian bronze and pharaonic bronze. And everybody will be happy with these 2 versions of the bronze mau.

Thank you Didier.I understood that indian line cats were penalized in french shows. I am very pleased to leard that this is not the case. we need all mau breeders to colaborate .being dictatorial serves no usfull purpose.

They are not penalized because of indian line (some of our silver have millwood ancestors).

But the rufus is not conform to French standard. So, indian bronze usually can't get points.

Knowing that, whe produce for France only pharaonic bronze, trying to get warm ones rather than cold ones.

With a breeding point of view, I think that best results are obtained avoiding to cross silver with bronze, or pharaonic bronze with indian bronze.

At this time, it doesn't looks possible to change the Loof standard. Should it become possible, I would insist for Pharaonic bronze and indian bronze to be judged separatly.

For time being, our French specificity gives a chance to pharaonic mau to continue to exist face to the actual taste for wery red bronze maus.

Am I correct in understanding that you are saying you control the loof standard?

No, we don't control it !

But AIME is the mau breed club of the Loof. So, we are part of the process when the standard has to change. We worked with Loof on the current standard and some of our proposal have been taken in consideration.

In this process, we are not alone : feline associations (as FFF, the French FiFE representative) are also part of the process, and judge representative have a big part of the process. The Loof scientific council (whose I'm member) also has advice.

in the current standard, AIME took into consideration all the known mau standard in order to have the best harmonisation.

AIME also obtained some specific things to be explicitely considered : tarnish, glitter, ...

And main thing, we succeeded in recognition of the black mau.

For the bronze, the 'red' color is not accepted in the standard for a long time and for the moment, there is no forecastable opening.

That is unfortunate and only serves to isolate the french bronze mau breeders from the worldwide community.

Est-ce que le Mau Français est tellement isolé ?
Il n'est pas nécessaire d'être nombreux pour avoir raison.
Pourquoi a-t-il été nécessaire de créer la race Thaî ?

Il a été nécessaire de créer la race Thaï parce qu'à force de surtyper le chat Siamois, les "chercheurs" qui se sont amusés à le faire sont arrivés à la création de quelque chose qui n'avait plus rien à voir avec l'original.
Les têtes étant devenues étroites et hyper allongées, ce qui a donné lieu par la suite à quelques problèmes de santé....la morphologie elle-même du corps étant complètement modifiée.
Certains amoureux inconditionnels de ce siamois originel ont voulu le recréer à l'identique, et pour ce faire ont eu recours à plusieurs races.
C'est quelque chose d'inimaginable, car si l'on avait bien voulu garder quelques spécimens originels et en continuer l'élevage, eh bien ces derniers éleveurs n'auraient pas été acculés à le faire.

Malheureusement, maintenant, des tas de gens se veulent "passionnés de génétique" ou " experts en génétique" (on trouve même des "siamois" de toutes les couleurs...jusqu'à des spécimens spottés !)
C'est ainsi que de belles races se perdent quand l'homme veut jouer à Dieu .....

C'est à nous de veiller à ce qu'il n'en soit pas de même du Mau Egyptien Pharaonique...
si certains pensent que le Mau Français est isolé, eh bien laissons penser !

[i]It is necessary to (re)create the Thai because breeders have, over time, forced the breed to move so far away from the original that it now looks deformed.
For example, the body shape has been modified so much and the head have become long and narrow ( like a dogs). These changes have contributed to increased health problems.

This has galvanised a number of those dedicated to the original breed and health of the cat to take the breed back to it’s original form. But to do so they have had to mix in other breeds.

It is unimaginable that the original breeders had not kept any of the original cats while continuing to ‘improve’ the race.

Unfortunately these genetic experts are giving the appearance of wanting to play ‘creator’ to the breed. We have seen the same problem with the Siamese of all colours – with the end result being spotted specimens.

It’s up to us to ensure this does not happen with the Egyptian Mau. If some think this isolates the French mau – that’s a good thought!

Thanks to Patrick for the traduction !

I don't think it's unfortunate. It isolates us from only a part of the bronze community.

The original bronze mau, as we still meet in Egypt, is the pharaonic one. He has been bred since the 50's.
The indian bronze is more recent. It has been intriduces by the New Delhi imports of Jean Mills : this 2 imports were used to create the bengal line and the indian bronze line.

Although CFA recognize this line, this has been very controversial. No matter : now, we are in the world where both pharaonic and indian lines exist.

In the past, we saw in some bresds (as siamese) some progressive ameliorations of the breed. At end, the breed is so different from origin that some people want to recreate the original breed using other blood and other name.

Having both indian (the new) and pharaonic (the classic) is a richness for the whole breed. It's very important to keep the pharaonic bronze or, in the future some breeders will want to recreate it, using another name and calling it with another breed name.

In France, our Loof standard chose the pharaonic bronze. If means that Indian bronze will never have success in Loof shows. But no foreign breeders ever come in French shows (not only bronze, but also silver and smoke), so it's not a big problem.

The Choice of Loof standard is also a good opportunity : it creates a place where we can preserve the pharaonic bronze, waiting the expected evolution of the taste. When pharaonic bronze will one day again be asked, it will still exist in France.

I also noticed that a few american breeders still prefer pharaonic bronze maus and a few of them can be found in US.

Préserver certains Maus originaux, tels que Mère Nature les a conçu, ceux-là mêmes qui ont plusieurs milliers d'années d'existence, ne semble pas être une idée si saugrenue que ça.
Au vu des arguments de Dhalllepee, il se peut même que cela soit une chance inestimable...car, oui, les modes changent, bien qu'il soit assez difficile de concevoir que l'élevage félin puisse avoir un quelconque intérêt à suivre les modes....


Preserving the original Mau as Mother Nature made it, in the last few thousand years, doesn’t seem to me to be strange in itself!

According to what Dhaleppee wrote, it could even be considered a great advantage… fashion changes as we know; this said, it’s quite difficult to conceive feline breeders finding an interest in following fashions…

"Beauty is in the Eyeof the Beholder" we all seen to agree on one thing: We are dedicated to the continued wellbeing of The Bronze Egyptian Mau. Jean and I breed only Bronze Egyptian Mau's. we have no other animals.The pedigrees of our Mau's are available for all to see on our website.The comparison drawn between the Indian / Traditional Bronze Mau and ruined the siamese breed is extremely offensive. As Didier has pointed out: consangity and inbreeding are the main threat to our breed.The introduction of new blood through Tobi and Tashi and Sahour and Maslama have been invaluable. What is the point of imagining who Tobie's Grandparent were or who Sahoure's Grandparents were it serves no usefull purpose, They now form part of the progressive History of the Fabulous Bronze Mau..As a matter of personal interest: can anyone tell me : How many Bronze only Mau breeders there are in France?

"L’appréciation de la beauté est dans l’œil de celui qui regarde" nous sommes d’accord sur une chose, nous sommes dédiés à la continuation du bien être du mau bronze. Jeanne et moi n’avons pas d’autres animaux, les pedigrees de nos maus peuvent être vus sur notre site. La comparaison entre le Mau indien/traditionnel et la ruine de la race Siamoise est très offensive (à mon goût)!
Comme Didier l'a souligné, la consanguinité et l’inbreeding sont les plus grands dangers pour notre race (de mau).
L’introduction de nouveau sang par Tobi et Tashi et Maslama ont été inestimable,
Quel serait le but d’imaginer qui sont les grands parents de Tobie ou de Sahoure là où cela ne sert à rien ? ils font maintenant partie de l’histoire progressive de fabuleux maus bronze,
Sur un sujet plus personnel, est-ce que quelqu’un pourrait me dire, combien d’éleveurs consacré uniquement au bronze il y a en France ?!

Dans mon précédent Post, il s'agissait exclusivement du Chat Thaï par rapport au Chat Siamois.
Ma reflexion ne s'étendait pas au Mau Pharaonique/Mau Indien......
La barrière des langues est parfois fort préjudiciable à ce que l'on désire exprimer et surtout à ce que l'on souhaite faire comprendre sans aucune erreur possible d'interprétation...
Il n'est absolument pas question d'entrer en polémique ni de froisser quiconque.

On the above post, I was exclusively speaking on Thaïs cat compare to Siamese! It was not intended to make parallel with Pharaonic mau compare to Indian mau….

The language and culture barriers very often cause misunderstanding between what was said and how it was meant to be heard!

We do not wish to offend any one or to start a polemic

Thanks to Patrick for the traduction.

Je n'utilisais cet exemple que pour illustrer le fait qu'après avoir fait évoluer une race vers un certain type, il était parfais nécessaire de revenir à l'original. Il est bon que celui-ci existe encore. Cela dit, l'AIME n'est pas le conservatoire du Mau Bronze Pharaonique.
Après avoir vu les Mau Indien de France, je préfère le type du Mau Pharaonique.
Je dois aller voir les Mau de Peter.

I was only using this example to illustrate the fact that after having worked on a breed, it was often needed to come back to the original to continue further, hence it is necessary that the original is still around! This said, AIME is not a reserve of pharaonic Bronze mau

Having seen the Indian mau in France , I prefere the Pharaonic mau

I will have to go and see Peter’s!

Thanks to Patrick for traduction.

Bonjour à tous et désolée de ne pas m'exprimer en anglais. si l'un d'entre vous a la gentillesse de le faire, je l'en remercie d'avance chaleureusement.
Afin de répondre à Phcl, je dirai ceci:
aujourd'hui ,en France, un seul éleveur (non membre de l'Aime) a fait le choix de n'élever que la couleur bronze ...en acquérant une femelle pharaonique et trois sujets indiens.
L'autre éleveur à élever la couleur bronze ne travaille qu'avec des sujets pharaoniques mais est pour le moment dans l'obligation de sélectionner souvent du bronze provenant des autres couleurs.
Pour quel résultat? du côté de l'éleveur travaillant avec les lignées indiennes la consanguinité est trop forte, certes la couleur est chaude...
Du côté de l'éleveur travaillant avec les lignées pharaoniques, certes la couleur n'est pas encore celle recherchée quoi que ... mais les pedigrees sont sains avec un travail qui se fera dans le temps: Mère Nature réclame de la patience et de l'humilité...d'autant qu'il est peut être intéressant de rappeler que le Mau quelque soit sa couleur est une race naturelle. Nous pouvons donc choisir de la travailler dans le sens de la préservation plus que dans celui de la création.
Tous cependant s'accordent à dire qu'un beau bronze est un bronze chaud, d'accord mais une fois de plus c'est avec le temps que l'on fait les plus belles choses et c'est souvent en préservant dans "le jus" que l'on peut des années après repartir sur de bonnes bases alors même s'il n'existe qu'un éleveur en France à vouloir travailler le bronze Pharaonique ça vaut le coup de respecter son travail et que les éleveurs qui ont fait le choix des lignées indiennes ne l'isolent pas .
Christelle


To answer to Phcl query I would say :

In France today there is only 1 breeder (non AIME) having made the choice of breeding only bronze & acquired 1 pharaonic female and 3 indians.

An other breeder concentrating on breeding bronze only work with pharaonic mau & is obliged to select & use bronze coming from other colours
What are the results? On the side of the Indian bronze mau breeder the consanguinity is very high although it is true to say that the colour is quite warm…

On the side of the pharaonic bronze mau breeder, the colour is not far from what is desired but need to be refined… however the pedigree are very good and the goal will be achieved in time (mother nature requesting patience and humility… especially as it is important to remember that the mau, what ever the colour, is a natural breed.

We can choose to work with preservation of the breed in mind or create something!

Every one will agree that a beautiful bronze is a warm coloured bronze, I agree but once again it is with the time in mind that one can do beautiful things and it is preserving the stock that after a few years if need be we can start again a program from a wealthy stock , so even if there is only 1 breeder to work on the Pharaonic bronze mau at this time, it is worthy to respect his work I Think


Thanks to Patrick for traduction.










[i]

phcl a écrit:The comparison drawn between the Indian / Traditional Bronze Mau and ruined the siamese breed is extremely offensive.

Please, don't feel any offence. The example is perhaps badly chosen. We just want to say that we think important to preserve the pharaonic bronze rather than wait a re-creation in the future

Christelle says that there is only one breeder (outside AIME) who breeds only maus. She has 1 pharaonic female and 3 indian maus. Hot colot, but too much consanguinity.
Christelle also breeds bronze, but not exclusively bronze. As bronze, shee has only pharaonic ones. Having to use other colors to avoid consanguinity, she feels she can have better color in the future. She knows it will take time.
Being alone to breed bronze pharaonics, she feels isolated among bronze world. But her work is fantastic.

Having imported Sahourê and Maslama in the past, I know we can have very colored pharaonic maus. we had a good opportunity to work this color, but this choice was not made. I'm sorry for it !

In any case, we all love bronze. Both colors are beautiful. Standards and taste are differents in different countries. Aime breeders adapt to the country where they live. This difference will help to keep in each country the prefered color, which is good for the whole breed.

Hello Didier,
Would you agree that the CFA breed council's recomendation ( enc) if universally adopted will do much to preserve the integrity of the breed
regards.

Peter




CFA Egyptian Mau Breed Council

Import policy

febrUAry 2009

Egyptian Mau Import Policy

The Egyptian Mau is a natural breed that has no allowable outcrosses. Cats may be imported from any of the Countries listed below as defined by their geographical borders:

Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Egypt, Erythrea, Ethiopia, India, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Lybia, Morocco, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Qatar, Republic of Djibouti, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Tunesia, Turkey, United Arab Emirate, Yemen

It is the policy of the Cat Fanciers’ Association (CFA) Egyptian Mau Breed Council to accept Native Egyptian Maus into the CFA Egyptian Mau registry that:

· Have been imported from any of the countries listed above.

· Have satisfied the Requirements for Identification / Approval of Imported Native Egyptian Mau.

· Have satisfied the General Requirements for Registry, including a three generation pedigree of known ancestors as documented by DNA parentage testing.

It is the policy of the CFA Egyptian Mau Breed Council to accept domestic Egyptian Maus into the CFA Egyptian Mau registry that:

· Are the fourth generation (great-grand) offspring of one or more imported native Egyptian Mau(s) of unknown ancestry, i.e., have a three-generation pedigree of known ancestors, at least one of which is a native Mau of unknown parentage. The native Egyptian Mau(s) must have been imported from the accepted countries as listed above.

· Have satisfied the General Requirements for Registry.



Definitions:

Purebred Egyptian Maus: Cats registered as Egyptian Maus and accepted as such by the major feline registries, e.g., CFA, TICA, FIFe, etc.; generally, ancestry of these cats can be traced back a minimum of five generations and all ancestors are registered Egyptian Maus; selectively bred to meet the requirements of a written standard that defines the characteristics of the breed with points allocated according to the importance of the feature described; eligible to compete for titles in the major feline associations

Native Egyptian Maus: Cats originating in the accepted geographical regions as stated in CFA policy, generally feral cats living unattended in the streets of the major cities or in agricultural areas; random-bred with unknown ancestry; meet minimum criteria for acceptance into the Mau breeding programs as an outcross: spotted pattern in black-based silver, bronze, smoke, no disqualifying physical features such as white spotting, incorrect paw pad / nose leather color, tail kink, etc.

Domestic Egyptian Maus: Second and third generation cats descended from imported native Egyptian Mau(s), but not eligible for registry in CFA

General requirements:

In order to be accepted into the Egyptian Mau registry:

1. Native Egyptian cats should be at least nine months old before the completion of the approval process; fourth generation Egyptian Maus with a three generation pedigree of known ancestors should be at least 8 months old before the completion of the approval process.

2. All applicant cats must express spotted pattern only in one of and the following currently accepted showable colors: silver, bronze and smoke.

3. Applicants cats should have no physical characteristics that would cause disqualification as per the CFA standard or CFA rules. This should include NA/IM and NA/WCC.

Add:

4. Applicant cats should exhibit no obvious genetic issues that would negatively impact on breeding cats that meet the standard.

Re-number the following existing provisions

5. The applicant cat shall have a three generation pedigree of known although not necessarily registered parents as proven by DNA type and parentage testing. This pedigree of known parents may be established:

a. by tracking to the fourth generation a native Mau colony or breeding program in the originating country.

b. by tracking to the fourth generation direct descendents of an imported native Egyptian Mau of unknown ancestry. Documentation of importation of the native cat will be required.

6. A fourth generation cat or kitten whether native or domestic Egyptian Mau, must be examined by a designated representative* of the Breed Council as appointed by the Breed Council Secretary and must be determined to not have any disqualifying characteristics or obvious issues that would impact genetically on the genepool.

a. * The designated representative may be a Breed Council member or members who are in close proximity to the imported cat, or the Breed Council Secretary may require that the cat be examined by a CFA judge or judges. The decision as to whom the Breed Council Secretary designates for the exam is at the discretion of the Breed Council Secretary.

7. Imported cats shall be micro-chipped in Countries where available either prior to shipping or within ten days of arrival in destination Country for those Countries where the technology is not available, regardless of whether the cat has a three generation pedigree or will be a foundation cat for establishing the three generations. All supporting documentation shall include the micropchip number for all generations descended from native cat(s) of unknown ancestry that are not registered.

9. All paperwork materials will be reviewed by the Breed Council Secretary who will forward a letter to Central Office certifying that application is complete and that the cat has met the minimum requirements.

REQUIREMENTS FOR IMPORT IDENTIFICATION/APPROVAL:

The Breed Council Secretary will review all documentation and photos (must show acceptable pattern and color, including paw pads).
The Breed Council Secretary or designated representative must examine the imported cat to rule out disqualifying physical features. The designated representative may be a Breed Council member or members who are in close proximity to the imported cat, or the Breed Council Secretary may require that the cat be examined by up to three CFA judges.
To maintain identification of the cat through the process, the native cat shall be micro-chipped in Countries where available either prior to shipping or within ten days of arrival in destination Country. All supporting documentation must include the microchip number.
Notification of intent to register must be reviewed with the Breed Council Secretary. The Breed Council Secretary will notify CFA when the identification/approval process is complete.
The following are for clarification only and will not be on the ballot:


GUIDELINES:

Give your Breed Council Secretary a heads up when you start to plan to import the initial cat. That way you can coordinate and he/she can take you through what will be expected before you initiate the process. Once you have three full generations and are ready to register the cat please supply Breed Council Secretary/Central Office with the following information for imported cats submitted for registration:

Notification of intent to register must be filed with CFA with the following:

1- Detailed description of the cat applying for registration, age (or close approximation), color and any known history in addition to any other information about the cat that the applicant would like considered

2- Pictures of cat detailing breed standard features (see below for specifics)

3- Certification from three CFA judges as identified by BCS, or designated agent as identified by BCS that cat has been identified via microchip, examined and found to be free of any disqualifying features and/or congenital defects that would impact adversely on the breed.

4 - Date original cat imported

5 - Desired name - ie ________ of _______, if you will use a nickname or shortened name in your application for description purposes, or the cat is referred to by another name in paperwork, please identify all names

6 - Microchip number, date of microchip for cats from all three generations - please include microchip number on all paperwork supplied

7 - Paperwork - Proof of export of original cat from originating Country – to include if available, airbill, airline ticket or government travel papers, veterinary records from country of origin referencing microchip if applicable.

8 - The cat applying for registration shall have a three generation pedigree of known, although not necessarily registered parents as proven by DNA parentage testing with each cat identified by microchip number. Please provide list of all three generations and supporting paperwork.



Checklist Required paperwork

Paperwork on initial import from licensed veterinarian

Microchip number to be clearly identified on all paperwork and certificates

International Health certificate

Checklist documentation – originating Country

Copy of airline ticket,

Receipt from shipment clearly identifying the cat

Paperwork on cat applying for registration

From applicant

1- Three generation “pedigree” of known cats identified by microchip number, color, sex. This can be supplied from cats tracked in the originating Country, or from cats produced in the U.S. after the cat has been imported

2- DNA proof of parentage for all three generations of cats tracing to original import with each generation identified by microchip number, color, sex and pattern.

List of pictures that will likely be requested/required by the Breed Council Secretary

Use cat name in file name for pictures if submitted via email. Please write cat name on picture if hard copy submitted. Identify all pieces of correspondence with cat name, or identified call name

a. Each side showing pattern clearly

b. Head on - showing head and necklaces and chest area

c. Profile of head

d. Full body

e. Paw Pads - simply need to be visible in a picture...

f. Belly - showing spots

g. Coat with coat pulled back to show undercoat

h. Microchip id picture - Picture of cat with reader showing number.

Central Office will need hard copy of high resolution photos for their records. Breed Council Secretary will accept either electronic copies, or hard copies of sufficient quality to be scanned.

Reference: Import policy as adopted February 2007



If you have any questions about this policy, please feel free to contact Breed Council Secretary: Melanie Morgan



Home





Copyright 2009. Any questions please contact the webmaster at emau@emaucats.com

Hi Felix
Thank you for your coments..Patrick is a good mediator.
I absolutely agree with you. If antiquity is your thing so be it. I personaly believe that two Beautiful Animals bred together stand a very good chance of producing beautifull Babies...All things being equal.

Kind Regards
Peter

Il est excessif de penser que mon truc est l'antiquité". Même si elle nous a fourni de beaux drames, la guerre de Troie est terminée depuis quelque temps déjà.
La cause du Mau est mieux qu'une antiquité, je pense.
Je crois que je commence à apprécier l'humour Anglais.
Il est possible de ne pas être d'accord sur un sujet sans avoir tort ni l'un ni l'autre.
L'histoire donne raison à l'un ou à l'autre à la fin de l'histoire.

re bonjour à tous et merci encore à Patrick pour ses traductions.
J'aimerai poser une question à Peter:
Pourquoi avoir choisi de travailler avec des chats issus des lignées indiennes plutôt qu'avec les lignées pharaoniques?
J' aimerai préciser à nos amis étrangers que si mon choix s'est depuis toujours porté sur les lignées pharaoniques, je trouve cependant que certains sujets indiens sont de toute beauté. Le débat ne porte donc pas en ce qui me concerne sur l'aspect esthétique ou le travail des éleveurs mais plus sur leurs motivations pour ce type de Mau et sur ce type de couleur bronze.
Votre réponse, Peter est très importante pour moi.
cordialement,
Christelle

Arbre Perche's translation=
hi again and tks to P......
I would like to ask Peter:
why did you choose to work with cats from Indian lineage instead of pharaonic?
I would like to say to our friends from abroad that if my choice has been to use Pharaonic mau, I have to admit that some indian maus are really beautiful,
This debate is not on the look or the breeders work but more on what motivated them to chose one intsead of the other bronze specimen
your answer is quite important to me and trust you will obliged!
mau-st friendly
christelle

phcl a écrit:Hello Didier,
Would you agree that the CFA breed council's recomendation ( enc) if universally adopted will do much to preserve the integrity of the breed
regards.

Peter

Bonjour Peter
I appreciate to share with you about mau. It will help us to better understand the other point of view.

I'll first remind some things
- I'm (or have been) member of CFA, TICA, EMBFC
- Some other breeders of AIME are (or have been) members of CFA and TICA
- Our former president was member of the breed council
- There also are AIME breeders out of France. In their country, they can breed indian bronze if they want.


This procedure has been writen using what was done for Sahourê and Maslama when they were recognized by CFA as egyptian imports. President and secretary (Myself) of AIME participated to the redaction and validated the result.

This is a good procedure. If universally adopted, it will help to preserve the integrity of the breed.
But there can be some breeders who will introduce some unwanted things without claiming it. So, no procedure can garantee the integrity of a breed. But it helps.

We can have different taste in the different countries : the standards allow some interpretation. Remaining in the standards gives compatibility between countries and helps to preserve the whole breed. I know all good breeders work in the same direction, with personal preferences, for the good of the breed.

NB : arbreperché question is very interesting.

Hello Christelle.
Thank you for your question.
We do not work only with Indian Lineage Cats. One of our Boys is called Liolisimba and is a Greatgrandchild of Sahoure. our other boy is the grandchild of Brockhaven Lucky Strike.we have yet to breed a cat like Ghaniyah. She is a wonderfull animal.she has a Fabulous temperament and looks so very Beautiful If we could produce cats like Ghaniyah we would consider ourselves very forunate indeed. but,as you will see on our website, the majority of our kittens so far have been of traditional appearance. Best Wishes to you..Peter

Traduction
Bonsoir Christelle,
merci pour votre question,
Nous ne travaillons pas uniquement avec la lignée Indienne.
Un de nos "Garçons" s'appelle Liolisimba et est l'arrière petit fils de Sahouré. Notre autre garçon est le petit fils de Brockhaven Lucky Strike. Il nous reste encore à élever un chat comme Ghaniyah (dans notre élevage). C'est un très bel animal, elle a un caractère merveilleux et est magnifique.
Si nous pouvions atteindre le but d'avoir des petits comme Ghaniyah, nous nous considérerions comme très chanceux . Mais, comme vous pouvez le voir sur notre site web , la majorité de nos chatons sont jusqu'à présent d'une apparance plus traditionnelle.
meilleurs salutations Peter